8 replies, 3 voices Last updated by  Dean Jones 2 months, 1 week ago
  • Ron
    Participant
    @genevabible1599
    #11278

    The papacy claims they are the only church. That is not true,they base this off one scripture; Matthew 16:18 That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it. (KJV)
    Notice the word church is lower-case. This is speaking to the individual. Replace Peter with your name, this is called transliterated, this is not changing the meaning of the verse in anyway. Let me know what you think.

  • james1948
    Participant
    @james1948
    #12094

    Thou and this. You are Peter and upon me, this rock I will build my church. Jesus is the Rock and the cornerstone and the foundation of the Church. The apostles are in the foundation. Ecclesia is the Greek word and it means called out. The called out ones are those that were called from the seashore of Galillee and repented at the preaching of John the Baptist and were baptised by him and this is witnessed by Peter while the Church was in a prayer meeting. The call from Peter is that Judas needed to be replaced and the Church had a business meeting and the qualifications were given for the person that was replace Judas. Acts 1:21 – “Wherefore of these men which have companied with us all the time that the Lord Jesus went in and out among us, 22 – Beginning from the baptism of John, unto that same day that he was taken up from us, must one be ordained to be a witness with us of his resurrection. So therefore the qualifications, 1. A person that has been in our group with Jesus. 2. Baptised by John the Baptist. 3. Witnessed the Resurrection. Now you cannot replace Peter with your name because Jesus was speaking of Himself. Jesus is the Rock. Peter was a pebble. Greek for Peter is Petros, a piece of a larger rock. This rock that Jesus refered to is Petra – a mass of rock. An extremely large rock such as the rock of Gibralter. No one but Jesus can be that Rock.

  • Ron
    Participant
    @genevabible1599
    #12159

    Eph. 2:9 Who are the saints? Who are the saints throughout the New Testament? Who are the saints that clothe the bride in righteousness Rev.19:8.? You are right Christ is talking about Himself and talking to rest of the Apostles. If we follow Christ and not man made religions are we not the saints? Nonetheless an old pentecostal preacher, about 40 years ago told me, to put my name in the veres as long as it does not change the meaning. I,m the rock of my family through Christ part of a larger body and a saint. Hebrew has a lot of figurative expressions to contend with past,present and future coupled with common sense.

  • Ron
    Participant
    @genevabible1599
    #12160

    What church?

    • james1948
      Participant
      @james1948
      #12217

      Context is so important to understanding any passage. “And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this Peter I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.”
      “And I say also unto thee, That thou are Peter, and upon this James I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.” For the Church to be built upon Peter or James, it would have a very unsure foundation. The beginning of the Church on the seashore of Galillee began with Jesus not James or Peter. The only safe, secure, and solid foundation is Jesus. As Jesus walked the shores of that lake, he called certain men that had repented and been born again and were baptised by John the Baptist. They were the prepared material Jesus added to himself. Jesus the foundation and the apostles added onto the foundation. To put my name in this passage picks it up out of its setting and changes the meaning all together. There is no need to change the meaning. It is comperable to pulling a diamond out of its setting. It destroys the beauty. Let us keep the diamond of this verse in its setting and enjoy the exquisite beauty of Jesus in the setting He was intended to be in.

  • Ron
    Participant
    @genevabible1599
    #12236

    Ok Christ is the cornerstone of the church and the apostles are the foundation. Is this what you are saying? Christ did not say this was for just the apostles; Peter, James, and or Phillip. Christ wanted us to apply the Word to us individually. If I don’t do that then Christ is only talking to Peter? Since I am a believer I have to assume that Christ is talking to me if I put my name in it. That is the exquisite beauty of that verse. It is called transfiguration to individualize the Word to yourself but not to ascribe yourself to Christ. There is also a word called dichotomy which is a contrast between two equal things; Peter = Ron both are human,male, proper names, and believers.
    If I take your premise that Christ was talking to only Peter and the Apostles. What is my position in Christ? Am I not part of the rock? If I do not apply the Word to me; to my life, then it becomes meaningless. If I am not part of His Word then I am left in limbo. Are we not like the apostles to evangelize the Word?
    For clarification; we are talking about Mat. 16:18, the second Peter should be rock. Then the next three sentences you add James . I am copying what you have printed: Context is so important to understanding any passage. “And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this Peter I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.”
    “And I say also unto thee, That thou are Peter, and upon this James I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.

    • james1948
      Participant
      @james1948
      #12270

      Ron, I was misunderstanding what you were saying. I thought you were saying, to put your name in place of the rock. You were saying to put your name in place of the name Peter. What you said is correct then. Let me revise what I did. Matt. 16:18 – And Isay also unto thee, That thou art James and upon ME (Jesus) I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it. I am sorry I did not understand what you were saying.

  • Ron
    Participant
    @genevabible1599
    #12276

    It might have been my mistake. I was waiting for someone to pin that one verse to mans church, ie, The following churches in some form or fashion build their claim to the true church off that one scripture; The Holy Roman Church, The 4 Eastern Orthodox Churches and the ones in Asia, the Ethiopian church who claims to have the ark, factions of the Protestant church and the list goes on.

    The true church is the believer that has Christ as the cornerstone and we are the foundation and the women is the body of the church. Interesting topic. Thank you for your input. Pick a topic.

  • Dean Jones
    Keymaster
    @deanjones
    #20898

    thanks

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